Roundtable With Slovenian Journalists
Daniel Fried, Assistant Secretary for European and Eurasian Affairs
Washington, DC
December 21, 2007

Assistant Secretary Fried: Let me start by saying first, congratulations to Slovenia because you’re now part of the Schengen Group and you Slovenes can drive from Maribor to Madrid, from Portoroz up to Scotland. This is a great achievement. It’s Slovenia’s achievement also.

I’m of the view that all countries emerging from communism -- Granted, Yugoslav communism was a more civilized version. It wasn’t Soviet. But I think all countries emerging from communism had moral and political choices to make. Most of them made the right set of choices. Some, like Yugoslavia under Milosevic -- like Milosevic’s Yugoslavia, did not. The right choices that Slovenia made meant that you’ve entered NATO and then the European Union and now the Schengen Group which means you’re part of an undivided Europe and that’s a great accomplishment, and it’s yours.

Now you’re assuming the Presidency of the European Union. You will be faced with immediate, Slovenia will be faced with immediate and tough issues, but by happy coincidence the toughest issue and the most immediate one, Kosovo and its final status, is the issue on which Slovenia is the most prepared. That’s because, to state the obvious, you know the ground, you know the players, you know the culture, you know the issues. I can’t think of a better President of the European Union in this critical time than Slovenia. And by the way, Foreign Minister Rupel’s comments today that some of you printed today were right on target. He demonstrated the kind of leadership and steadiness, which means that the Slovene Presidency is well equipped to deal with these challenges.

That said, it’s going to be rough. It will be rough because these are not easy issues to deal with. We’re dealing with the aftermath of the breakup of former Yugoslavia which was in the way it occurred, a tragedy. It didn’t have to occur at all, and if it did occur, it could have been like the Czechoslovak velvet divorce, but it wasn’t. It was something much, much worse. It was really just about the worst possible option of prolonged set of civil wars. We’re dealing with that last chapter and we’ve got to end it.

The “we” in this case is unfortunately the United States and Europe. I wish that the “we” was the [United Nations] Security Council. That would have been preferable. But the Security Council was blocked in the summer. We tried repeatedly. It was blocked, it was very clear that no compromise was possible because one country was going to block everything.

We then decided for a last ditch effort at negotiations, the so-called Troika process with the European Union, United States and Russia. They tried and they tried magnificently. They left no stone unturned. They did not reach agreement. Not because they ran out of time, but because no agreement is possible. Now you don’t have to listen to an American about that, ask Wolfgang Ischinger, the European Union representative. He’s a skilled and creative person. He had our full backing. And he acknowledged that there is no solution possible.

Well, on Kosovo where are we? We can’t go back. We can’t resurrect something that’s gone, any more than we can resurrect Austria-Hungary and “The Good Emperor”. We can’t stay where we are. Kosovo is not sustainable in this kind of strange, non-status. We have to move forward and it will be difficult, but the Kosovars to their credit have not only accepted but embraced international supervision.

KFOR will remain. The European Union will send its large ESDP mission. An international civilian office will oversee Kosovo’s implementation of the Ahtasaari Plan and the guarantees for the Serb community, and we will proceed.

I wish we didn’t have to do this at all, and I wish we didn’t have to do this outside the Security Council, but we don’t always get to choose the circumstances of our decisions. We have to make the decisions based on the circumstances we’ve got, and I think Europe is going to do the right thing.

Other issues will come up in the six months of Slovenia’s Presidency. Hopefully progress on the Middle East; relations with Russia; Afghanistan; climate change; other critical issues. I look forward to working with Slovenia, with the Presidency. I met with the Political Director for about an hour today. I look forward to working with him in particular. We had good discussions, and Slovenia is clearly off to a good start.

Let me stop there and take any questions.

Question: Will the US be the first country to recognize Kosovo if they declare independence [inaudible]?

Assistant Secretary Fried: We will act with our European friends. We are stronger if we act together. We will coordinate at all steps. We will not surprise anyone. And I believe that we and Europe will move together when the right time comes.

Question: The right time is the second half of February?

Assistant Secretary Fried: I don’t want to get into specific dates. That’s a very fair question, but I’m not going to answer it. The time for specifics isn’t yet here, but we’re not talking about a long time.

Question: But it would certainly be after the Serbian elections?

Assistant Secretary Fried: Look, if I said after the Serbian elections then Serbian elections might be postponed for a very long time, right? [Laughter]. Let’s not get into a game where we all trap ourselves into paralysis. Let’s say it is clear that there is no negotiated solution. It is clear that we must move ahead. And we’re now in the stages of finalizing our last decisions and we will make them.

Question: I would like to ask on a comment, I think a couple of days ago I saw a comment from Italian Foreign Minister Massimo D’Alema. He was kind of trying to put the blame onto Russia and the United States for the impasse for Kosovo. Because like Serbia President Boris Tadic told him that I cannot let the Russians be more Serbian than Serbs. So they are pushing for their position and then he said that the United States cannot do the same thing with the Kosovar Albanians.

Assistant Secretary Fried: I saw that, and I hope that the Foreign Minister was misquoted because in fact Italy has worked with us very closely. We have not taken any position that we haven’t coordinated first with the Europeans, including with the Italians.

Certainly the United States has acted to urge the Kosovars to be patient, to accept the Ahtasaari Plan. They have done everything we’ve asked of them. You have a very moderate leadership there. The extremists in Kosovo exist, but they have been marginalized and it’s important that we keep them marginalized.

Question: Last time Europe was not [inaudible]. Why do you think, I’m talking about the last [inaudible].

Assistant Secretary Fried: I know.

Question: Why do you think Europe will do a better job?

Assistant Secretary Fried: Because I think they know they were not up to the task and they know what happened because they were not up to the task. I think Europeans are determined that this time they will do better. And let me not simply criticize Europe. The United States also was not up to the task. Let’s be honest. No country responded as quickly or as forcefully as we should have in the early days. So as an American I can’t sit here and criticize the Europeans and say we were fine but it’s your fault. No. All of us failed, which is why all of us must now succeed together.

Question: Still, it’s not all of us. You have Serbia, you have Russia. Serbia already declared that it will never recognize an independent Kosovo. Russia will do probably the same.

Assistant Secretary Fried: It is a tragedy to see a talented capable people be led down a bad path by nationalism. Nationalism, as I’ve said before, is like cheap alcohol. First it makes you drunk, then it makes you blind, then it kills you. Serbia deserves a future in Europe. All countries in Europe have historic claims to more territory than they occupy now -- France, Germany. England used to control half of France. Spain used to control half the world. Poland used to control three-quarters of Ukraine. Every country has had to adjust to the fact that its maximum historical boundaries are not its current boundaries. That goes for Serbia also.

You know the history in the Balkans. Modern Serbia picks up Kosovo during the Balkan Wars. What, 1912? Come on. All of us have had to give up -- all countries have to give up something. Serbia is no different. Serbia should take its future in Europe. By trying to hold onto something that is not achievable it deprives its people of their rightful place in Europe and gains nothing.

Question: What do you think that Slovenia brings to the table in trying to help --

Assistant Secretary Fried: Deep knowledge of the ground, first of all. You know the history, you know the players. You also know in a way that most others do not, how to read and interpret what you hear from Belgrade and Pristina.

I expect that I will be asking Slovenes for their assessment of what Belgrade is doing and I expect those assessments will probably be pretty good because Slovenes can read messages coming out of Belgrade with a knowledge that Americans cannot. Because of the shared history in Yugoslavia. You know these people. You know the issues. Yet you don’t have a particular national agenda here. It’s not as if Slovenia is an irredentist country. Far from it. So I think Slovenia brings a deep knowledge and judging by what the Foreign Minister said, a sense of responsibility. So I look forward to this. I think we’re fortunate that Slovenia will be in the presidency in this critical, difficult time.

Question: I know the difference also in the Security Council, that you have the Western position, Europe and Washington. This is a unique case. While you have Russia that can bring the precedents. So if it really brings the precedents, you know you have all the southern, one Ossetia, there; you have independent Abkhazia, Transnistria --

Assistant Secretary Fried: I know. I’ve never understood that argument. First of all, Kosovo is obviously a unique case because there’s no other place in the world where the UN has been administering a territory pursuant to a Security Council resolution. So there’s nothing else like it, so it clearly isn’t a precedent.

But if you step back and say you’re worried it will be destabilizing, then the thing to do would have been to pass a Security Council resolution with the force of law that would have recognized this as a unique case, but Russia blocks it forcing the whole matter to be resolved outside the Security Council. It is our view that Kosovo is not a precedent, not for any place. Not for south Ossetia, not for Abkhazia, not for Transnistria, not for Corsica, not for Texas. For nothing. Nothing. We will insist on that. We want to work with our European friends so that it is not used as a precedent, and we hope that Russia behaves in a way that will not make it a precedent. If they’re worried about the destabilizing effects, let them work with us instead of worrying on the one hand and flirting with separatists on the other.

Question: I don’t know how much you can say on the record now, but if you can, why do you think then Russia is doing what it’s doing?

Assistant Secretary Fried: Well, I don’t know. You should ask them.

Russia has perfectly legitimate concerns about stability in the South Caucasus. It’s perfectly fair for Russia to be concerned about outbreaks of violence. It’s natural that we would want to work with Russia on a common agenda. But we wonder sometimes about Russia’s support for some of the separatist enclaves.

We would never, ever flirt with separatism inside Russia. Never. It’s completely out of the question. If some extremist group in Russia starts claiming something based on Kosovo, we will vigorously and immediately reject this. We will never flirt with this. We respect Russia’s territorial integrity without question. I’m not picking my words carefully, I’m not being qualified. We hope that Russia would do the same with respect to Georgia and Moldova.

So why does Russia do this? Maybe they have difficult relations, well, they do have difficult relations with Georgia for a number of reasons, and maybe some Russians are tempted. But I hope that Russia will work with us so that the South Caucasus is not an area where anybody is tempted to use force or threaten.

Every nation has its fools and fools in the South Caucasus can do a lot of damage. This is not an accusation, because there are fools on all sides. Okay? Fools on all sides. And responsible governments have to work together to keep the fools from dragging us all into a bad situation. We are willing to work with Russia to this end.

Question: I was going to switch to Afghanistan.

Assistant Secretary Fried: Sure.

Question: President Bush expressed yesterday that some countries might just get tired of Afghanistan of --

Assistant Secretary Fried: I remember that.

Question: Slovenia has some soldiers in there. I wanted to ask you, just from general [inaudible]. Are you satisfied with Slovenia in cooperation in Afghanistan? Do you want more or --

Assistant Secretary Fried: We think Slovenia is an active, welcome member of NATO. I remember many many discussions with Slovene government representatives about NATO back in the ‘90s. You were disappointed in Madrid, then you were very happy at Prague, now you’re in and now you’re contributing. We made the right decision at Prague.

President Bush was pointing out that this is not an easy task and we have to stick with it until it’s done. A lot of NATO countries have troops in the south and are doing the fighting -- the Dutch, the Canadians. The Poles have increased their numbers, especially in the east. Tough place. They’ve put in real combat forces. We need to stick this out and we need to do this together.

The President is worried that some countries will say well, we’ve had enough. The fact is security is indivisible and we can’t retreat to isolationism. It’s not a criticism of Europeans. There are Americans who argue the same thing. When the strong democracies of the world retreat into isolationism, bad things happen. Wars happen. We need to have a forward-looking foreign policy. This is not just America, not alone. It has to be the United States and Europe and other great democratic countries working together multilaterally and through our organizations. Not coalitions of the willing. We need to do this with the EU and with NATO and the UN when it’s possible, and we need to act together in the world.

Now Slovenia, like every other country, has its national interests. You’re in a nice place. You’re in a wonderful corner of Europe where the Slovak-Latin-Germanic worlds all come together. It’s great. But it’s not just your comfortable corner of Europe. I mean you really are on the right side of Europe now. It may not always seem that way, but there you are. But the world, you may not be interested in the bad things in the world, but they’re interested in you. And if the democratic, peaceful countries of the world don’t act, we will be acted on. But that doesn’t mean we should be foolish or adventurous or unilateral. It means we need to work together. That’s what President Bush is talking about.

Question: Slovenia, as you mentioned earlier, joined the Schengen agreement, I mean they kind of end border controls and it means that among the member states no control on --

Question: So the terrorists can freely walk around -- [Laughter].

Assistant Secretary Fried: Do you think it was a mistake? I’m sure everyone would have -- [Laughter] -- Since this is being taped, I know you are joking.

Question: I was wondering, since Americans [inaudible], how do you view this opening in Europe?

Assistant Secretary Fried: I think that open borders in Europe are a good idea. As I said, I welcome this.

Now the Schengen agreement has two parts. One is we eliminate our internal borders. The second is we strengthen our external borders. The United States is strengthening its external borders. We’re doing so in cooperation with Europe. That is unfortunate that we have to, but we do have to. So both halves of Schengen need to advance and we want to work with Europe so we have a system of travel controls that welcome legitimate travelers, that have a minimum of complications, and yet keep out terrorists.

Slovenia is, the visa waiver program is something you all have. You know that under our new laws we’re trying to expand the visa waiver program to more countries. The Czech Republic, Estonia, Latvia, Greece, eventually Poland, but also strengthen security with some new ideas.

So the answer to your question is Europe and the United States are doing both. We’re opening up as much as we can and we’re tightening up for security reasons against terrorists. And we have to find the best way to do that. It’s not easy. It means we make mistakes along the way, right? We Americans sometimes do. We don’t have it perfect, but we’re trying as best we can and we’re better off if we’re working together and sharing our experiences.

Question: Did you have any discussion about the EU/US summit during the time of the Slovenia presidency in Washington or --

Assistant Secretary Fried: Of course I can’t say anything about that yet because it isn’t arranged, but I will say I’m looking forward to it.

I was with President Bush at [Bergdorf] Castle in June of 2001, a famous meeting. I won’t forget it. I’m looking forward to the US/EU summit. I’m looking forward to working with Slovenia.

Look, I like Slovenia. I climbed Triglav, I spent a lot of time at Bled, I just love the Bled-Bohinj area. I’m very fond of Slovenia, so I’m just for personal reasons looking forward to going there. Maybe if I’m lucky I’ll go to the museum, the Kobarid Museum. The best museum of World War I that I’ve seen. It’s a wonderful place, and for my colleagues who don’t know what it is, the other name for Kobarid is Caporetto. It was, think of the Western Front in World War II, except in the Alps. And it’s a wonderful museum because it shows respect for all sides. There’s no sense of an enemy whom one hates. The theme of the museum is really respect for all, hatred for none, and a kind of note of sorrow that these good people had to fight each other for not great reasons. That’s a decent museum, it seems, for a good country.

Question: Did you meet the new US Ambassador for Slovenia? Did you talk to him about Slovenia? Does he know something about Slovenia?

Assistant Secretary Fried: There is a nominee and of course I’ve had a good discussion, talked all about it.

Question: I just want to clarify --

Question: You didn’t mention his name.

Assistant Secretary Fried: I didn’t, and I won’t.

Question: I was just going to clarify something. I was talking about Kosovo before. The thing completely moved out of the UN now, and that Russian suggestion that there should be further negotiations --

Assistant Secretary Fried: There’s no point. And that’s not an American position, that’s the European position as well, clearly. You just read the European Council decisions from last week. There’s no point. Not five more months, five more years, won’t make a difference. Right?

Question: Slovenia’s taking over the Presidency, actually the last year of the Bush administration. So President Bush is going to travel a lot in the first half of 2008 and he’s coming to Slovenia as well. How much is the present administration still interested in working hard with Slovenia during this six months?

Assistant Secretary Fried: We have to work hard with the European Union Presidency. The question is not the abstract one as you've put it. The question is what’s coming up on the agenda? Kosovo, the Middle East, Afghanistan, issues of our relations with Russia. We’re not walking away from that. What President Bush is doing after the Annapolis conference. He will be working hard and at full speed every day that he is President. There are really two ways that American Presidents have their last year in office. One is to sort of, sometimes Presidents have sort of relaxed and you can see the activity level dropping. But Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, and I believe President Bush were working and fighting to move ahead every day in office, so it’s not a partisan comment. You had President Clinton being productive right up until the last days, and the same I believe will be true of President Bush.

Last question.

Question: In Bucharest we hold a very important [inaudible]. I heard that the US is very much in favor of [inaudible] new member states -- Macedonia, Albania and Croatia. One of the criteria to accept a new member to the club is resolve the border issues. There are [inaudible] who think Slovenia and Croatia. So I’m wondering if US is encouraging Croatia to resolve this.

Assistant Secretary Fried: We haven’t made up our mind about the three candidates. We do think Croatia makes a very good case, and frankly, I think if I contemplate Croatia in NATO it’s good for everyone, and good for Slovenia too, I think. You’ll make up your own minds.

I understand that there’s been an issue but it’s not the kind of issue, thank God, that is threatening. It’s something that countries can work out and I hope they do. But it is a wonderful thing that Croatia has made so much progress.

Slovenia has shown the way. Croatia is following. I hope that Serbia and all the other countries will learn that there is a better way than turning back into a dark place and they ought to follow your example.

It’s a pleasure.